FCC vs. Dahua and Hikvision

nagar

Now that I'm sold on SecuritySpy I turned to picking out network cameras, preferably high quality turret cameras with good color night vision. Dahua's extensive line looks great, with excellent prices, and of course Dahua is a highly recommended company here.

But I recalled that the FCC has declared war on some Chinese manufacturers. That includes Dahua and Hikvision. The future for those firms in the US is not clear yet, apparently, but they may have to exit the US market entirely. In which case ongoing support, including bug fixes and security updates, could be in doubt:

https://www.omm.com/resources/alerts-and-publications/alerts/fcc-bans-new-licenses-for-the-import-and-use-of-certain-chinese-telecommunications/

I'm curious what others think about the wisdom of investing in these companies' products under the circumstances.

From what I can tell so far the non-Chinese manufacturers recommended here, such as Axis, tend to have limited offerings for turret cameras, and the price points are dramatically higher. Nevertheless those could be wiser choices at this point. Beyond Axis I'm curious what other non-Chinese manufacturers can be recommended for SecuritySpy.

(I have no prejudice against Chinese products or companies. All my Apple tech was made there, after all. Just concerned about the practical problems with the Chinese manufacturers in the current political climate, which I do not see improving anytime soon.)

Thanks, Bill

Ben

Hi Bill, I can see why this is a concern. It's unfortunate because Dahua and Hikvision both have a great range of high-quality cameras at reasonable prices, and this will mean less choice for US consumers.

Some users are worried about privacy when using Chinese cameras, and in our opinion these concerns are valid, since these cameras tend to "phone home" to send unknown data to various Internet servers, without asking permission, and without any explanation as to what is being sent. It's probably just diagnostic information, but it's impossible to say for sure. This issue is not exclusive to Chinese brands, but it seems particularly common with them. But, there are ways to prevent this (e.g. Segregating IP Cameras on their own LAN).

If you're not too worried about this, I don't think there is a reason not to purchase a Dahua or Hikvision camera right now, but make sure to get it from a reputable source such as B&H. Maybe in a year or two my advice will be different, as the ban has its effect on limiting the supply of new models. Even with the ban, you'll still be able to get such cameras, but they will be be "grey imports" - usually cameras destined for the Chinese market that have been flashed with English language firmware. They usually work fine, but if something goes wrong there will be no support.

Axis are a good US-based brand, but as you say, don't have such a wide range, and their produces are more expensive. Vivotek (Taiwan) and Milesight (worldwide) are also very good brands with comprehensive ranges of cameras.

nagar

Thanks, Ben. My main concern is potential loss of support if these manufacturers are forced to exit the US market. Network devices deprived of bug fixes and security updates seem problematic, as Steve Gibson and other security specialists emphasize.

Denying the cameras access to the internet as you suggest should mitigate any security risks, but at the same time prevents any automatic firmware updates that might be available. I wonder if, under the physical network segregation you propose, camera firmware updates could still be accomplished manually via browser from the server Mac.

The Dahua cameras are inexpensive, so it might be reasonable to take the chance they may lose support in the next year or two and, if really necessary, consider replacing them at some point. And the companies targeted by NDAA may ultimately be able to remain in the US consumer market and then, for people like me, nothing important may even change. I guess time will tell! Good to have the Vivotek and Milesight options as well.

Thanks, Bill

Ben

Yes, loss of support is definitely a concern. However, once a camera is set up and confirmed to be working well, there is no reason to suppose it will need any further firmware updates to continue to work well. Yes, firmware updates provide security fixes, but this is not so important if the camera is on a separate network with no Internet access. And, as you suggest, firmware can usually be applied manually by downloading the file from the manufacturer's web site, then uploading it to the camera using a web browser. So I think it's reasonable to buy a Dahua camera now if you find one you like at a good price from a reputable seller.